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Topic: Sweating (Read 510 times) |
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Holly
Senior Member
Candle Addict!....and Draft Horse Lover!
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Hi,
I have been reading by using the search tool about how soy candles can sometimes sweat. I have not had one of mine sweat yet when not burning -- although I have not had them in a hot environment yet. I have noticed though that when I burn them there are sweat beads on the surface of the non-melted wax of the perimeter of the melt pool. Is this a bad thing? Are the beads FO beads? They do not appear dark like I have seen when paraffin bleeds FO. I use CB-3 Calsoy which I really like, and so far I have been using between 8 and 9 percent FO depending on the scent. There are a few scents that I may be able to reduce the FO amount. I have not noticed any problem with blending in the FO when I am making the candles. I am not quite sure what the FO load is on this particular soy. I have looked on Calwax's site and the site where I order the wax and it does not say. I would quess that it would be able to hold up to 10%. It appears that most Calwax products can.
Thanks.
~Holly
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| « Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2005, 10:11pm by Holly » |
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Beth_VT
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Stellaaaaaaa... ..
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #1 on: Jun 28th, 2005, 10:23pm » |
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Well it's not sweating bullets, that's for sure. Yes, it's FO, yes it's too much. Cut back and try again, but first I would contact Swan (or whoever your supplier is) and ask them for a specific load for that wax. You can't assume anything based on their other products.
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Holly
Senior Member
Candle Addict!....and Draft Horse Lover!
Posts: 837
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #2 on: Jun 28th, 2005, 10:36pm » |
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Hi Beth,
Thanks. I just was not sure if it was FO or just sweat beads of wax (the whole mixture) as it gets hot. It looks a lot different from paraffin wax when it bleeds FO. I am not as familiar with the soy yet, but getting there. My next move was to call Swans to find out the actual FO load capacity after studying up on this issue today. I will reduce the amount of FO to see what happens.
~Holly
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| « Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2005, 10:51pm by Holly » |
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faerydust
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I love candletech.com!
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #3 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 7:12am » |
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hi holly, i know exactly what you are talking about. when you light the candle and the melt pool is still small but there are beads of sweat where the melt pool hasn't reached yet? i only note this on my soy candles & its every single one of them. i don't think its fo. i am pretty sure its just the wax heating up. once the melt pool is complete its gone (of course) & i have never had a fire (knock on wood) or any issues from it. i have noticed this on candles that have never had any bleeding issues to.
i use C-3 and it does have a tendency to bleed on some fo's @ 1 oz per lb and it looks just the same as when parrafin bleeds & pools at the top of the candle before its lit. you will know it when you see it!
of course check on the load for your wax and keep an eye on it!
hth 
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Beth_VT
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Stellaaaaaaa... ..
Posts: 1131
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #4 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 10:36am » |
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Ummm...yeah.
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faerydust
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #5 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 1:26pm » |
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Hi Again, Not sure by Beth's comment if i explained myself well or not  . My experience has been that the drops of wax that look like sweat once the candle is lit on the perimeter of the meltpool have always just been the wax heating up. I noticed this to because I watch them closely because of FO seeping problems i have occasionally with my soy candles. When my soy candles seep fo it's generally a pool on the top of the candle & smells very strong of fo & is of course oily. I wipe the fo off and wait a day or 2 to see if they are going to seep any more and if they don't then i test burn them at that point. & this is why i keep a close eye on my candles & have noticed what looks like seeping fo after its lit but in MY case it has not been. i have noticed it in candles that have never seeped fo as well. it is neither oily or strong smelling like the seeping fo before the candle is burned.
i use C-3 and i never use more than 1oz per lb. i don't know what the fo load for your wax is and didn't presume to say that yours were not seeping, just merely letting you know i have had this experience to & thought mine were also seeping fo until i realized that it was just the wax heating up!
have a nice day 
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Holly
Senior Member
Candle Addict!....and Draft Horse Lover!
Posts: 837
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #6 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 1:52pm » |
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Hi Faerydust,
Thank you for your post. I understood exactly what you meant to get across -- did not read it as if you were saying that I do not have a "real" issue at hand but that my situation could end up being the same as yours. I just received an email back from Swans and he said that Calwax recommends 7%. I never have had any trouble blending the FO in with this soy and have never seen any bleeding while the candle is not burning. Even though I have used .1 of an oz more than recommended it still does not appear to look like FO seepage to me. I see it the same way you do at this point, but I could be wrong. So, I am going to test one at 7% and lower if I have to. I am also curious to know what would happen if I make a candle that does not have any FO in it at all and see if it still sweats. If I find that it is the FO, and if using less than 8% or 7% affects the scent throw, then I will add something to help increase the FO capacity -- add some paraffin. I am hoping to keep it pure soy/vegi. Even if there is a soy wax out there that can hold more FO, I want to stick with this one because I can get it in my state which saves on shipping and it has a great scent throw.
I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again for your input. Have a nice day too!
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| « Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2005, 1:53pm by Holly » |
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Beth_VT
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Stellaaaaaaa... ..
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #7 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 2:56pm » |
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I understood what both of you said, I know Holly has an issue..it's called to much FO. If faerydust has the same problem, I'd say it's the same cause.
If you see "beading" up or little droplets on top of your wax, it's FO. When wax melts, it does not bead up on top. It either melts, or it doesn't. It will become liquid from the source of heat, out.
If there were enough heat in the surface of your candle to cause "beading" on top, then the surface itself would already have melted. FO, however, does exactly what you are talking about. As the temperature increases, so does the seeping.
And to answer Holly's question, if you use 0% FO, you will have no seepage. No oil, no seepage. You say you're only using .1oz more than the recommended amount as if the difference is miniscule. If CalWax recommends 7% max, and you're using 8-9%, then your using 15-30% more than the maximum load, and that's huge. No wonder they're bleeding.
Calwax also seems to push this as a one-pour, sounds like it already has additives, so why you'd want to add more is beyond me. The wax holds what it holds. Industry standard is about 6%, and if you're using quality oils you should not have a problem getting a great throw. If it's not good enough for you, then maybe you need to change waxes again.
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Holly
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Candle Addict!....and Draft Horse Lover!
Posts: 837
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #8 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 3:44pm » |
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Hi Beth,
Thanks for your input. You could very well be right. That is why I asked the question - to hear others inputs and experiences. I am going to test it at 7% or lower if need be. If it affects the throw "for me" than if I choose to turn it into a 50% par and 50% soy there is nothing wrong with that -- as long as it burns correctly, etc. I would like to continue to get my wax from my state to keep the shipping down and I do like the Calwax products. I have heard many that have had success with 50% soy 50% par (i.e. J223 and soy). Calwax has a really good paraffin that is compatible with their other wax and may make a very nice combo with CB-3. I am optimistic that the CB-3 will still have a great scent throw at 7% and I can continue to offer a soy/vegi candle. I shall see.
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faerydust
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #9 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 5:43pm » |
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Thanks for that insight Beth! You know you think you have something right and lo and behold you don't..LOL I to thought the beading was strange and after running my hand across the top and it not being oily or overly powerful like a straight seeping oil figured it was a strange burning characteristic of this particular soy wax. i don't sell them but just burn them for myself and do keep a close eye on them but now I am a bit worried! I tried C-3 w/stearic to help retain some of the fragrance but it just doesn't seem to matter it still will seep. I even went down to 4 or 5 % and w/some fo's it still seeps even adding the fo's warmed up a bit and at around 175-180 & stirring like crazy! Soy is about to make me crazy  I wish i didn't like that clean burn so much 
Good luck w/your testing Holly & let us know how it works out for you.
Again thanks Beth, that is enough perspective to send me straight back to the drawing board!
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Beth_VT
Elite Member
Stellaaaaaaa... ..
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #10 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 6:51pm » |
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on Jun 29th, 2005, 5:43pm, faerydust wrote:...that is enough perspective to send me straight
back to the drawing board! |
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LOL....been there done that
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"The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma..."-Patrick Star
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PrairieDweller
Junior Member
Bad to the Bean!
Posts: 25
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #11 on: Jun 29th, 2005, 11:49pm » |
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what kind of dye are you using, if any? Oil based dyes have to be considered as part of your "oil load capacity" and I don't think anyone actually calculates that factor in. I have gone back to using dyes and they are soy oil based. Several of my formulations have had to be adjusted as a result or I will go over my wax's threshold.
And being a straight soy user for 6 yrs, my unscented candles that contain no dye or fragrance will also "sweat". I think it is the lower meltpoint components leeching to the surface at times and others, a fragrance incompatability (in my case)..as I am very careful never to go over my 7% max position
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faerydust
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #12 on: Jun 30th, 2005, 5:59am » |
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i actually use color blocks and not alot either just a few slivers because i can't seem to get anything but pastels..lol but if i did use the liquid dye i know i wouldn't have considered that in my oil threshold!
i tried blending w/a parrafin 75/25 to help retain the oils and it worked but my scent throw wasn't near as good as the oils in soy alone 
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Fairy_Light
Junior Member
a.k.a Fairy_Light! "GOOO PEAKS!!! YEAH!"
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #13 on: Jun 30th, 2005, 8:35am » |
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Thanks for posting this. I just started with soy and my first test votives were very oily I thought it was because the soy had to cure but I'm guessing if it's oily from the get go that means there's far too much fo. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread. Again thanks for posting.
HUGS
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Holly
Senior Member
Candle Addict!....and Draft Horse Lover!
Posts: 837
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #14 on: Jun 30th, 2005, 4:38pm » |
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Hi Faerydust, PrairieDweller and Fairylight,
This was bugging me -- in the end I like to see it for myself. Yesterday, I made a small candle in a small tin. I had another one that I had made with Juniper Breeze with more than 7% oil. I did not have a lot of time to make my usual large candle so I just grabbed some of the harden wax that also had the universal additive in it and put some in the tin and melted it down and let it harden. After I did this, I realized that I should have added dye but ran the test anyway. I found that the one without dye or FO beaded/sweated like the one with the dye and the FO. I did notice though that there was less beading (beads were smaller) in the tins which have one wick then in my vase jars or Victorian square jars which have two wicks. This is probably because the ones with the double wicks create more heat. I had a feeling that it was still going to sweat. I don't mind the sweat, but I was concerned about too much oil. Since I found out that they recommend 7% in this wax and even though I have never had any trouble blending a higher amount of FO or had bleeding when the candle is not hot, I will try to reduce the FO and see if it still gives me the GREAT scent throw.
I am sure though that there are times when the beading can be actually FO in some cases and should be carefully tested to make sure.
PrairieDweller, I have been using the liquid dyes from Just By Nature that is orderless and is supposed to work well in soy. I will have to check to see if it is oil based, etc. I am not sure. Even before I ran the test I thought that same as you did: PrairieDweeler stated: "I think it is the lower meltpoint components leeching to the surface at times and others, a fragrance incompatability (in my case).." Some soy wax may not produce as sweaty look when burning. I am going to make a large candle with dye in it and no FO and with the double wicks and see if the beading is the same as my others with the FO and dye -- just out of curiosity.
I really love this soy! Altough, I really can't compare it to any others. This is the only one that I have used. I am not selling my soy candles yet either but was in the process of finalizing a few fragrances until I started to read about "sweating".
Fairydust, yes be careful and check to see why it is oily -- check on the FO capacity and how much you used, etc. I have had paraffin candles bleed before burning and I knew for a fact that it was FO -- I could tell. And, I did not even use more than the wax could hold. Some fragrances are a lot heavier than others, etc.
Thanks for all of your responses and input. Have a great July 4th weekend!
~Holly
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| « Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2005, 4:41pm by Holly » |
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Jordan
Candletech Newbie
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #15 on: Jul 3rd, 2005, 4:04pm » |
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Hi,
I noticed you were talking about soy, which I use, too. It shouldn't be sweating, but take into consideration that it could also be from the temperature differences. Some soys are worse than others, too. It is hotter here, and I notice my pure soy candles do tend to sweat in the heat. Are your candles also sweating after cooling? Watch the temp of the room you pour in, if it is too hot, the tops won't completely set up. We have our warehouse air conditioned and ventilated to control these situations. I don't ship candles in the summer months for this reason. If your variables are correct, and you have ruled out FO bleeding as the culprit, I would consider this as a possible issue.
J
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Holly
Senior Member
Candle Addict!....and Draft Horse Lover!
Posts: 837
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #16 on: Jul 3rd, 2005, 5:11pm » |
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Hi Jordan,
Thanks for your post. So far, I have not had any sweating while the candle is cool. It has not gotten real hot here yet and when it has been a little warm outside we usually run the AC. Our inside of the house is usually never above 75 and usually around 69-72 in the summer. I am pretty sure though that if my house was hot inside they would probably sweat. I will have to put one in a warmer place and see. Our shop is not air conditioned but keeps real cool anyway. So, that would not be a good test. I will put one in the barn and see what happens.
In the winter our house is between 58 and 60, so I hope I will not have a horrible frosting problem. lol  But in order to have this wonderful clean soy burn I believe these issues (sweating and some frost after a burn) are worth it.
I do not sell yet, so I don't have to worry about shipping them yet. I will most likely be offering a paraffin line in addition to soy, so if later on the soy gives me a big problem with sweating in the heat I could always just ship the paraffin candles.
Thanks again for your post and have a great July 4th!
~Holly
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| « Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2005, 5:14pm by Holly » |
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maryann
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #17 on: Jul 5th, 2005, 11:53am » |
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WOW!  what a weird and fustrating problem your having. Have you thought of trying a different soy wax? I think someone already stated not all waxes are created equally. I wonder if its something added in the wax that when its being burned reacts to the heat If you really want to have a soy line you might consider ordering a small amount of wax from another reputable company to see if that remedies the problem (I know I'm being redundant) I just can't think of another solution. Does this supplier have a board you could go on and post the same question? Maybe someone who uses these products has had this problem and has a solution or call the company itself and ask them? Wish I could have been some help.
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Holly
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Re: Sweating
« Reply #18 on: Jul 5th, 2005, 10:09pm » |
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Hi Maryann and the rest above,
I called Calwax and they assured me that I was right in my conclusion -- nothing to be concerned about. I explained everything and he said exactly what I and PrairieDweller figure it is. There are lower melting point properties in the wax (alone) that can sweat and it is normal with some soy. He understood exactly when I told him that the sweat while burning was completely different than when FO bleeds -- different look -- clear not dark, not as dense and even on the surface, etc. Before I told him that I had made a candle without FO to see if it would do the same thing, he had said that if you made a candle without FO it would do the same thing.
Also, they said that they recommend to their customers that they test between 7-10 percent FO, so I have been within the range.
I should add though that this is the outcome for my situation and may not be the outcome for other's soy wax --may be somthing different that is sweating and a different cause -- like to much FO, etc.
I am happy with the conclusion and can continue testing this soy wax. So far, it has a really GOOD cold and hot throw. However, I can only compare it to one soy wax (Ecosoya 120 that I have had for almost a year to use as an additive -- one candle made) and it beat it in cold and hot throw with that one FO.
Thanks again for your suggestions and input. I really do appreciate them.
~Holly
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| « Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2005, 10:13pm by Holly » |
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