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Topic: How to decide on the formula you are going to use? (Read 263 times) |
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Katie
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How to decide on the formula you are going to use?
« on: Mar 3rd, 2004, 4:50pm » |
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I was curious how you decide on the amount of each oil you are going to use? Like this one Robin gave to start out with. What makes you decide that the Olive Oil is 35% instead of say the Canola Oil? I did read somewhere that as a rule of thumb you should use 60% hard Oils and 40% Soft (liquid) Oils. Is using this rule the grounds for which ones have the larger amounts?
Olive Oil (35%) 11.2 oz
Palm Oil (35%) 11.2 oz
Canola (20%) 6.4 oz
Coconut Oil (10%) 3.2 oz
lye 4.3 oz
distilled water 12 oz
1.5 - 2 oz of soap safe FO, or 1 - 1.5 oz EO
Sorry if this is a "DUH" question. I looked all over the web for the answer just didn't see the answer to this specific question.
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Katie
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RobinInOR
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Always learning in So. Oregon...
 
Posts: 6646
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #1 on: Mar 3rd, 2004, 5:31pm » |
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Well, I'll give you my odd reasoning on why I created that recipe, then the other soapers can share how they develop their own. I love to hear how other people think through things.
First, you're right, there's a 60/40 hard/soft rule of thumb (tho this recipe falls short of that).
I was limiting myself to oils that could be found in the grocery or the health food store. So that's why I didn't have something like rice bran oil or palm kernal oil in it. I also was trying to keep it reasonable inexpensive, so I left out things like castor oil or cocoa butter...
That being said, olive, palm, coconut are mainstays of the veggie bars. I could have just gone with those 3, but figured people might already have some canola oil in their pantry, so I just threw that in there  Seeing your comments on how yellow your soap was compared to lard, there's probably better oils than canola if you're trying for a light colored bar.
I first work on the hard oils - that gives me a solid bar to work with. I like to limit my coconut oil to 10%, so I start with that. Then I put palm in there to make the hard oils total to 45 or 50% or so. So palm could be anywhere from 35-40%.
Then the soft oils that give soap it's extra conditioning properties. I could have just gone with the standard olive at 45-50% and called it done (55% olive, 35% palm, 10% coconut). But maybe I'd want it a bit more conditioning, maybe lower the palm and olive by some, and add in a 4th oil (like the canola). That canola could easily have been sunflower or safflower or a bunch of others. Plus, olive has been going up in price, so I wanted to reduce olive for another more reasonable oil. I didn't want to replace all of the olive with something like safflower, because safflower makes a lot softer bar than olive.
Then I take my %s and play with the number in the Sooz calculator. Mostly looking at the hardness factor.
Now, this is just my personal peculiar way of doing things. Probably no one else in the world does it this way When I started, I'd take a recipe, and add a new oil that I'd want to try out at 10%. Reducing olive if I was adding a soft oil, reducing palm if I was adding a hard oil/butter.
My personal base recipe that I started with is 45% rice bran oil, 25% palm, 20% palm kernal, 5% coconut, 5% castor. So you can see, my recipe is *totally* different
RBO - I can buy it local, it's cheaper than olive, and I like it better.
10% coconut - I can also get this local, cheap, but don't like going above this %. Since I want more bubbles, I added PKO as well.
5% castor - helps get more bubbles.
and the rest just kind of fell into place looking at %s
Does that help make sense of at least my twisted logic? 
Next? How do other soapers come up with recipes?
Gosh, I'm sorry I wrote a book again, I've got run on fingers.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2004, 6:13pm by RobinInOR » |
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Robin in OR
Containers: Calwax 30/LX. Votives: Calwax 10/LX. 3" Pillars: Calwax 10/RegPly. 2" Pillars: 1343/HTP. Tarts: Calwax 10/30 blend
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Katie
Elite Member
Posts: 1559
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #2 on: Mar 3rd, 2004, 5:53pm » |
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So can anything that is oil/butter be used in the soap? I snuck a peek at your website and I noticed that you use some other stuff like clays. Is that something that you would put in at trace? And would you do the 5% lye discount for putting this in? Or just add it like it was a colorant or FO?
Sorry to ask so many questions.And if I am intruding on your trade secret recipes, I am sorry and please don't answer. And it makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe we both have the same twisted logic
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Katie
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RobinInOR
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Always learning in So. Oregon...
Posts: 6646
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #3 on: Mar 3rd, 2004, 6:08pm » |
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Clays I put in at thin trace. Like oatmeal, honey, tea leaves... And yes, just about anything oil/butter can be used in soap. Some with better results than others. For clays, that doesn't affect the lye discount at all, a standard 5% is still a nice safe amount. Just like a color/FO.
Most calculators have lots of different oils/butters in them already, so you can properly calculate lye.
I learned everything on boards, so I don't have that many trade secrets
I really like clays, and I'll be using them a lot more. I'm in a co-op to receive some Australian clays, and so I'll have a bunch of new colors to play with - right now I just have pink kaolin. Of course, clays aren't an approved FDA colorant, so the clay is in there for it's other benefits  whatever they are
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Robin in OR
Containers: Calwax 30/LX. Votives: Calwax 10/LX. 3" Pillars: Calwax 10/RegPly. 2" Pillars: 1343/HTP. Tarts: Calwax 10/30 blend
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Katie
Elite Member
Posts: 1559
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #4 on: Mar 3rd, 2004, 7:04pm » |
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This makes alot of sense to me. Hopefully when I get back from vacation I can try a batch. I think this is going to be really fun.
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Katie
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Kara Lynn
Senior Member
I love candletech.com!
Posts: 445
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #5 on: Mar 4th, 2004, 6:35am » |
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Okay, I plugged your recipe into the sooz calculator just so I could see how it works.
If I plug in a "bad" recipe that was a typo or something, what would I look for on the sooz to tell me it was a bad recipe. I'm guessing that I am looking for "lye heavy" and how can I tell that it's lye heavy on the sooz?
Is there anything else I look for on the calculator that tells me it's a bad recipe.
TIA, Kara
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RobinInOR
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Always learning in So. Oregon...
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #6 on: Mar 4th, 2004, 9:01am » |
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The only thing to check to make sure it isn't 'bad' would be the amount of lye.
If I'm just checking lye, I use the MMS calculator instead at http://the-sage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php The reason I use this one is that it shows all the different lye discounts on one page, unlike Sooz. So I'd type in all the ingredients given in the recipe, then compare the lye in the recipe to the different lye amounts in MMS. If it's in the 1-2% range you've got troubles, you should stick to values in the green range.
And I might check if the water is within the range MMS gives.
Sooz by default just gives you the lye amount to use with a 5% discount. You can change it at the top, but for me it's easier to use MMS and see it all on one page.
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Robin in OR
Containers: Calwax 30/LX. Votives: Calwax 10/LX. 3" Pillars: Calwax 10/RegPly. 2" Pillars: 1343/HTP. Tarts: Calwax 10/30 blend
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bunnyblossom
Elite Member
Posts: 4157
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #7 on: Mar 4th, 2004, 9:06am » |
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Wow... this all seems much more difficult than I thought. Think when I start soap, good ole m&p will be headed my way! Between all the candle stuff, lotions, and other stuff, how do you keep your head from swimming with all this stuff! It's bad enough I dreams candles now, I can just see me dreaming soaps!
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Kara Lynn
Senior Member
I love candletech.com!
Posts: 445
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #8 on: Mar 4th, 2004, 9:27am » |
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I plugged everything into MMS and I understand everything in your last post except what you mean by 5% discount and how that fits into everything else. Is this the same thing as "excess fat" and can you explain what "excess fat" means.
So according to MMS, I can use any amount of lye in the green range with the amount of water suggested and if I wanted a softer bar of soap, I would decrease the amount of lye used for that recipe?
Hang with me, please. I know I will have my lightbulb moment when everything comes together <soon, I hope> and slap my head and say, "I get it".
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RobinInOR
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Always learning in So. Oregon...
Posts: 6646
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Re: How to decide on the formula you are going to
« Reply #9 on: Mar 4th, 2004, 10:17am » |
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I'll start a new thread - "Lye Discount"
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Robin in OR
Containers: Calwax 30/LX. Votives: Calwax 10/LX. 3" Pillars: Calwax 10/RegPly. 2" Pillars: 1343/HTP. Tarts: Calwax 10/30 blend
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